Advice for a newbie

KaiIsileth on January 3rd 2012, 5:56 pm

Hey,

For those who haven't read my 'introduction' post I have had my hog for a year this month (time has flown! I can't believe it!) and I think it is time for me to actually sort out a better diet for my hog. When I got him, I got him from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend... etc... who just told me to feed him dried cat food as that is what she had given him so far. I didn't get any more advice that that and then when in search of my dearest friend, the internet.

To be honest all the bits and bobs about fat % and mixing foods etc just confused me and I settled for buying dried meal worms to supplement the dried cat food.

The long and short of it is, I don't drive, I don't live near a pet store, I live in a small shared flat and keep my hog in my room, and don't know much about keeping them. I know, horrid owner right? I have taken him to a vet that treats APH's three times this year and he has been proclaimed healthy so I haven't worried too much. I got a promotion just before xmas (woot go me) and decided to try and treat my hog more as he hasn't been getting what he deserves.

The first thing on my list is to find some live mealworms, my normal pet store that I travel too doesn't do them so I am trying to find another that I can get too by public transport. I don't fancy ordering them by post. I read somewhere on the internet to make sure they are extra wiggly as the more lethargic they get the closer they are into turning into a beetle. I also read to give one live worm per day. Would this portion be correct? Also any info on wormies would be helpful, how long do they keep for? What is the smallest amount you can buy? I only have one hog, I have this mental image of a huge bucket of worms and having to throw most of them away.

Secondly is the main diet itself, he has only ever eaten GoCat dried food, some dried meal worms, and very rarely some banana. If anyone can give short comprehensive advice that doesn't consist of 20+ options I would appreciate it. He does drink a huge amount of water and I am worried he doesn't get enough soggy food.

I hope that makes sense!

Caroline

Vicki on February 12th 2012, 9:15 pm

Firstly, the portion of live meal worms you've been told is totally wrong from what I know. I've been told you can feed as many live meal worms as they'll eat, it's the number of dried ones you've got to be careful of.

Not sure how good GoCat is - someone with more experience will be able to give more info on this. I'm very lucky in that my mum breeds pedigree cats and so I've never paid for my hogs cat food and he always gets the best of the best, purely because we have it available.

I get my live mealies from a reptile shop and similar to you, I don't drive. If it weren't for my bf I'd be ordering mine by post which countless people do on here so I wouldn't worry about doing that. It'd be far easier for you and prob doesn't work out any more expensive for delivery than you'd be paying for transport!

I've had my hog for a few months now and still have found nothing he'll touch other than dried cat food and meal worms. I'm about to start trying him on more live food and will see how this goes.

basically, hogs are insectivores - they're designed to eat insects. The more live critters you can get in to him the better.

Redswife on February 12th 2012, 9:27 pm

Hi hun,
Pat on the back for looking for information.

I dont know where you got the live mealie thing from, but my two get 20-25 a day! Dried mealies are pure fat however and should only be given as a *treat*.
Go cat, as many a member will say is 'junk food' for hedgies. Alot of people use dried cat food such as science plan chicken light, royal canin 27 and 40, james wellbeloved (kiania should come along and help out, shes good for diets) etc.

Try giving hoggy bits of cooked chick, mince, boiled egg, veg and fruit (please see other thread in the diet section about what can and cant be given)

If theres no pet store around id recommened getting them in from ricks live food in the post (courier). They are the nicest mealies iv come across, and to be honest, your hog needs live food for a good diet. The price i pay for a 350ml tub, which will last me atleast 3- 4 weeks if not more is the same as youd pay for a 120g tub in p@h but pooher quality.

xx

**emdools** on February 12th 2012, 9:37 pm

I would only restrict the mealworms if your hoggle was classed as overweight. On average I would feed between 3-4 a night of live mealworms to my two.

Cat biscuits usually should have a fat of 10% and protein 30%. The reason why people make a mix is to prevent boredom and if a biscuit changes recipe then you have the others in the mix to fall back on. The Go Kat indoors is usually used for odour control. It can also be used to help a chubby hog lose weight. I normally look at the contents and try and find a biscuit that has meat listed as the first or second ingredient in the list. This is personal preference but I also try and look out for grape skins or fish oil.

Try the cooked foods suggested above. One of mine eats everything and the other just mouths it and then spits it out. So just be prepared to keep trying to feed them the cooked foods.

Kiania on February 12th 2012, 10:24 pm

Okay, keeping it simple.

Have more than 2 quality kibbles (dry cat food) in a mix, this allows choice, and the ability to change foods slowly without worry. You can add the rest of your Go Cat to this as well. My mix is:
2000g Advanced Nutrition Adult Food with Chicken
2000g Purely Adult Complete 40% Chicken (Pets At Home)
2000g Royal Canin Indoor 27
1000g Go Cat Complete - mix of the chicken, beef and rabbit varieties in fairly equal proportions
225g James Wellbeloved Adult Turkey & Rice (for added turkey taste)

The Advanced Nutrition, Purely, Royal Canin and James Wellbeloved I got from Pets at Home, the Go Cat I bought while working, so small news agents type places - supermarkets are good though.

I mixed that in equal proportions between two 10litre tubs I got from Morrisons (like tupperware in bucket-shape). I then use the Asda stacking tupperware with scoops for immediate use, and store the rest in the big tubs.

In addition, I buy one pack of 250g mince (beef or turkey), cook it in a casserole dish at 150 degrees C for about an hour. Use little lock'n'lock boxes, fill three of them about 3/4s full, two in the freezer, one in the fridge. Every day, I either cut some fruit and veg, or microwave some of Tesco's value frozen chopped veg, then add the mince from the fridge (between a teaspoon and a tablespoon - I use a tablespoon as Bodhi struggles to maintain weight, but adjust for obese hogs as required).

Then Bodhi gets a handful of mealworms in her ZZ2 while she's downstairs, and then another handful when I go to bed in her pen - I probably over-do it, but since she's not putting on weight, I'm not terribly fussed.
You need to be careful with dried mealworms as there is suggestion (at least in the US) that they can cause compaction of the gut in hogs due to lacking the enzyme required to break down the chitin, which is present in live mealies - they also have less moisture, less nutrition (due to lack of gut-loading), and less enrichment (due to no hunting required). I always recommend live. I also feed mealworm beetles, dubia and discoid roaches, crickets (silent ones!) and locusts. You can also try waxworms (high in fat!), butterworms, calci-worms and other types of cockroach - I don't feed the former three due to Bodhi not liking grub-like insects, and not the latter because I'm not a fan of climbing/flying roaches being in my house!

I buy all of my livefood from Rick: http://www.rickslivefood.co.uk/
No idea who told you that mealworms turning into aliens are still. My mealworms in the fridge are still, but that is because their metabolism has slowed down!
I always buy livefood online, petshops (looking at P@H in particular!) buy it in in bulk, so it is never fresh. Buying from a breeder is the same as buying a hog from a breeder - you just get a superior product. It is fresh, pre-gut-loaded, hasn't been shipped or sat around on the shop floor for weeks, and especially with Rick, he breeders, runs the website, packs, answers all emails, and ships - you get the whole package, start to finish, with just one guy, so you know you're getting the full truth. He's also really good at answering questions regarding everything he sells.

Even if mealworms do turn into aliens, or further into beetles...you can feed them too! So it is no loss. Bodhi loves the beetles, extra crunchy, nom! Smallest amount I've seen is 60g, which will last between a couple of weeks and a month - depending on how many you are feeding.

Going back to kibble, you are looking for three main things in a food. Protein should be between 30-35%, Fat should be between 10-15%, and lastly, you should look at the first five ingredients - you're looking for the first ingredient to be a meat, preferably named. Cereals should be fairly absent from the first five. If you PM me your email address, I can send you my spreadsheet, makes finding the right foods easy - or at least, gives you a sortable list to pick from Smile

KaiIsileth on February 13th 2012, 8:42 pm

I just wanted to say thanks for the posts. I found a pet shop within walking distance in Catford, but as you said with pet shops it had shelves and shelves of mealworms, meaty mealworms, crickets, locusts, locust on steroids and bugs. It gave me the heebies just looking at the shelves and i'm not normally funny like that. And when I asked the staff how long the mealies live for they said 3 days to a week. :/ They did live a little longer than that but maybie your right about the breeder if they are supposed to live a month.

I'm going to look into the cat foods and see what I can get from shopping around. I'll probably try some different 'real' foods first. I had heard about chicken but never tried it. I didn't know about egg! I'm always having boiled egg so that should be easy lol I did give him some banana once and he didn't even go near it.

I know it's not a foodie topic. But i'm upgrading sonic from a zoozone2 to a mega indoor rabbit hutch of doom that is twice the size. Spoilt little thing :P

KaiIsileth on February 13th 2012, 8:44 pm

- Sorry Kiania it says I haven't reached the post limit to send a pm :/

**emdools** on February 13th 2012, 8:48 pm

You only need another 4 more posts (10 in total) before you can pm. big smile

KaiIsileth on February 16th 2012, 9:30 pm

Just to keep people up date (if anyone cares xD) I have now given Sonic some plain mince meat which he devoured and didn't touch his normal food. And I have given him some boiled egg, which he ate half of and half his normal food.

I keep seeing people say 'fruit and veg' in a general way. Is there particular fruit and veg? Or are we just going for anything healthy?

x

Kiania on February 16th 2012, 9:47 pm

Avoid citrus, garlic, onions (and spring onions), and avocado.

Try peas, sweetcorn, carrots, brocolli, cauliflower, pak choi, cucumber, apple, pear, red and green bell peppers, sweet potato, banana, melon, strawberries, raspberries, mango...there is a long list Smile

Copy and paste from my spreadsheet time instead Very Happy

Meats
Beef Mince
Chicken
Duck
Egg (scrambled or hard boiled)
Gerber baby meat sticks
Lamb Mince
Scrambled/Boiled Egg (no milk)
Turkey

Vegetables
Asparagus*
Bell Peppers
Broccoli
Carrot
Celery*
Cilantro?
Courgette
Cucumber*
Curly Kale
Green beans
Mashed Cauliflower
Mashed Potato
Mashed Swede
Parsnip
Peas
Spinach
Sweet Potato
Sweetcorn
Turnip

Fruits
Apple
Apricots
Blueberries*
Cantaloupe
Cherry*
Cooked Pumpkin
Cranberries
Diced Tomatoes
Dried Apples*
Dried Banana*
Honeydew
Kiwi
Mango
Mashed Banana
Melon
Nectarine
Papaya
Peach
Pear
Plum
Pomegranate*
Raspberries
Squash
Strawberries
Watermelon

Treats
Wet Cat Food (smelly poos!)
Low Fat Cottage Cheese
Organic baby food (no added salt)
Mealworms (live or dried or cranberry flavoured)
Mealworms - Morio Size (dried only / but contain hormones)
Crickets (unconscious/freeze-dried)
Locusts (unconscious/freeze-dried)
Earthworms
Boiled Rice* (take out after 2 hours to avoid bacteria)
Cockroaches
Catmint?
Watercress (for annointing)
Salad leaves (not lettuce) or herbs*
Pine cones (bake first)
Wood (reptiles, use fruit tree, and boil/bake for 30 mins)
Cilantro/Coriander
Flat Leafed Parsley

Do NOT Feed
Avocado – potentially fatal for lots of small animals
Chocolate – unhealthy for obvious reasons
Citrus Fruits (oranges, lemons, limes, clemendine, grapefruit) – too acidic
Fish – It is believed that hedgies cannot digest fish or fishmeal properly.
Grapes/Raisins/Sultana/Currants – a cause of renal failure in small animals
Milk – Hedgehogs are deemed as lactose intolerant
Nuts and seeds – choking hazard
Onion/Garlic/chives – poisonous sulfur compounds (too strong as well!)
Aloe Vera - allergic
Pineapple
Peanuts & other legumes - choking hazard
Pits and seeds - choking hazard + some are toxic

* = in small amounts

barbgil on February 17th 2012, 6:42 am

hi ... i have been reading this with interest as i like any info on food for mrs prickles.

she is a "you dont think i am eating that veg" hedgehog,but loves locusts and morio worms

and of course mealies. thanks for starting the topic